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Saṁyutta Nikāya — The Connected Discourses

SN12: Connected Discourses on Causation

SN12:18 Timbaruka

1At Sāvatthī. Then the wanderer Timbaruka approached the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him. When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:


2"How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?"[n.45] Spk: In this sutta pleasure and pain as feeling (vedanasukhadukkha) are being discussed; it is also acceptable to say the subject is resultant pleasure and pain (vipakasukhadukkha).

"Not so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said.

"Then, Master Gotama, are pleasure and pain created by another?"

"Not so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said.

"How is it then, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created both by oneself and by another?"

"Not so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said.

"Then, Master Gotama, have pleasure and pain arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?"

"Not so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said.

"How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?"

"It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka; there is pleasure and pain."

"Then is it that Master Gotama does not know and see pleasure and pain?"

"It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka. I know pleasure and pain, I see pleasure and pain."

3"Whether you are asked: ‘How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?’ or ‘Are they created by another? ’ sn.ii.23 or ‘Are they created by both?’ or ‘Are they created by neither?’ in each case you say: ‘Not so, Timbaruka.’ When you are asked: ‘How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?’ you say: ‘It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka; there is pleasure and pain.’ When asked: ‘Then is it that Master Gotama does not know and see pleasure and pain?’ you say: ‘It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka. I know pleasure and pain, I see pleasure and pain.’ Venerable sir, let the Blessed One explain pleasure and pain to me. Let the Blessed One teach me about pleasure and pain."

4"Timbaruka, if one thinks, ‘The feeling and the one who feels it are the same,’ then one asserts with reference to one existing from the beginning: ‘Pleasure and pain are created by oneself.’ I do not speak thus.[n.46] Spk: If at the beginning (one thinks), "The feeling and the one who feels it are the same," there then comes the belief, "Pleasure and pain are created by oneself." For in this case feeling is created by feeling itself, and asserting thus one admits the existence of this feeling already in the past. One declares eternalism, grasps hold of eternalism. But, Timbaruka, if one thinks, ‘The feeling is one, the one who feels it is another,’ then one asserts with reference to one stricken by feeling: ‘Pleasure and pain are created by another.’ Neither do I speak thus.[n.47] Spk: If at the beginning (one thinks), "The feeling is one, the one who feels it is another," there then comes the belief, "Pleasure and pain are created by another," held by one stricken by the feeling associated with the annihilationist view that arises thus: "The feeling of the agent (karakavedana) in the past has been annihilated, and someone else (‘another’) experiences (the result) of his deeds." Asserting thus, one declares and grasps the annihilationist view that the agent is annihilated and rebirth is taken by someone else. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathāgata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be; with volitional formations as condition, consciousness … . Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations; with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness … . Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.’"

5When this was said, the naked ascetic Timbaruka said to the Blessed One: "Magnificent, Master Gotama! … I go for refuge to Master Gotama, and to the Dhamma, and to the Bhikkhu Saṅgha. From today let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life."

1Sāvatthiyaṁ vihārati. Atha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: 


2"Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti?

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti?

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti?

Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti.

Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti?

Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan"ti.

3"‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. ‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. Ācikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ. Desetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan"ti.

4"‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. ‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. Ete te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupāgamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā; saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ … pe … evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti. Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho; saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho … pe … evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’"ti.

5Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: "Abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama … pe … esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan"ti.

Aṭṭhamaṁ.